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Putting Complexity Thinking to the Test of this Pandemic with Zafer Achi - Shared screen with speaker view
Nadjeschda Taranczewski
22:53
Berlin, Germany
Julie Harnik
22:58
Hi Everyone from New Jersey
Siobhan McCann
22:59
Good morning from Montreal (it’s snowing!)
Wendee Wolfson
23:01
Hi from DC
joanna barsh
23:03
Joanna barsh here, calling in at 8am from sunny (and hot) Tucson!
Sarah Preisser
23:03
hello from East Lansing, Michigan in the US
Philip Chan
23:06
Hello from Taiwan
Carolyn Groobey
23:06
Greetings from Annapolis, MD
Klaus Ewerth
23:09
Klaus from Hamburg
Wendy Moomaw
23:09
Good morning from Columbia, Maryland
Sandra Ellison
23:10
Denver Colorado USA
suzan Stub
23:11
Copenhagen Denmark
Christina Showalter
23:11
Hi Chris Showalter from HK. It is 11 pm
Vlad Stefan Lichtenthal
23:12
Hello from Hamburg, Germany.
josephine schoolkate
23:13
Hello from Zurich Switzerland!
Thomas Allgauer
23:15
Hi Amy, regards from Thomas Allgäuer, Switzerland
Eva Damsgaard
23:16
Aarhus, Denmark
anita vandevivere
23:16
hello from Lier, Belgium
jennifer garvey berger
23:22
Good afternoon from London, 4pm and sunny and warm
Matt Gardom
23:23
London calling
Ekaterina Aleksandrova
23:23
Singapore!
Marie Pace
23:24
Greetings from Storrs, CT.
Hannes Shariputra Chopra
23:26
Good evening from Barcelona, Spain!
Trish Barron
23:27
Good morning from Chapel Hill - gorgeous spring morning here.
Flavio Kosminsky
23:32
Very sunny in Rio de Janeiro…Too bad I can’t go out.
Terry Finerty
23:38
Hi - calling in from London - 4pm here
alexia larmaraud
23:40
bk
Roy Edelstein
23:42
Newton, MA - 11 am
Eva Röttgers
23:43
Hi from sunny Frankfurt, it is here 5pm
Mercy Martinez
23:43
Miami, Florida
Mark Roberts
23:45
Hello from West Somerset, in sunny England, where it's almost tea time
Dylan Skybrook
23:45
Hello from Santa Cruz, California. It’s 8am.
jane arzt
23:47
berkeley, ca
Gonzalo PEREZ MENDOZA
23:47
Hello from Argentina! - 12:00 PM
RONNI HENDEL
23:50
Good morning from Los Angeles--8 a.m.
alexia larmaraud
23:55
Hi everyone - from Zurich 5pm!
Samir Sekkat
23:56
From a very sunny Berlin, its 5pm
Olga Godziejewicz
23:59
helo from Poland
Nicolai Tillisch
23:59
Thank you for inviting. Greetings from Dubai at 7 pm! Nicolai
Shea Adelson
24:03
hello from York, Maine at 11 am
Elizabeth Izzo
24:06
From Bloomington IN USA 11Am
Betsy Miller
24:06
Good morning - Betsy M from DC 11am! Will need to sign off a little early for another meeting but so happy to be here.
Patrick Carmichael
24:15
Good morning from Austin, Texas where we are getting ready for a major storm front
Donna Gage
24:20
David and Donna from Sarasota, Florida.
Eva Damsgaard
26:29
It's 5 PM in Denmark right now - and sunny spring
Adam Bauer
27:22
Greetings all from North Leverett Massachusetts—where a few last snowflakes are falling!
Suha Daou
27:32
Greetings from Florida.
Jonathan Sibley
30:12
Hello from NYC. Unfortunately, I can only stay for a while
Nils Belich
30:47
Hello from Munich
Simon and Andi Winter
32:08
This time and challn
alexia larmaraud
32:08
Learning about your work Zafer!
Jennifer Lynch
32:13
Exploring the link between complexity and creativity
Asha Singh
32:15
hearing you share your ideas...sharing our ideas in groups
alexia larmaraud
32:23
Learning from you Zafer
Ginna Martin
32:25
Complexity … creativity … community
Jonathan Sibley
32:25
A chance to see you again
Hannes Shariputra Chopra
32:26
Curiosity!
Suha Daou
32:28
@zafer I went through the Lebanese war as well. Interesting to see how you coped.
Flavio Kosminsky
32:37
No perspectives for the foreseable futures
joanna barsh
32:39
gaining inspiration and energy!
Adam Bauer
32:40
I feel drawn by community, by camaraderie, by the hope for working together to make a new way, a new world…
Eva Röttgers
32:40
I believe very much that we Need competencies to be with uncertainty and clomplexity in These days and I want to learn About it as much as possible
Nils Belich
32:43
meeting the moebius community
Vidhu Dutt
32:44
Your article Delighting in the possible - followed by a recommendation from my coach.
Jo Ilfeld
32:44
I’ve been fascinated for awhile with the cultivating leadership and complexity work
Terry Finerty
32:46
My good friend boris recommended it to me - and I have often used / explored, touched on the ideas of complexity and chaos - with a wide range of different definitions
Dominic Longo
32:47
Resourcing myself to support my clients ever more effectively for these weird times!
Robin Athey
32:47
a long-time metabolizing complexity … these themes
Jens Riese
32:48
Learning for my work with clients
michael chaffers
32:49
The power of adaptive learning to cope, and find capacity to respond well to chaos -- and support others
Sarah Preisser
32:50
looking forward to your ideas
Eva Damsgaard
32:51
To get your perspective on how to use Adult Development with the current situation
Vlad Stefan Lichtenthal
32:56
I conduct research on complex adaptive systems in innovation management
Chelsea Simpson
32:56
creating more ease in my system to hold wider space for myself and others
Julie Harnik
32:57
Will always take an opportunity to learn from you - beyond that, embracing complexity has been a source for me during this time and acknowledging the need for more of that understanding in the world
Lissa Pohl
32:58
Learning more about your take on complexity.
JOdi Rabinowitz
32:59
I am curious to learn to NEW content about this COVID thing. Wondering what I can bring back to Zoom.
Shea Adelson
33:00
language and mindset of complexity, how to shift
Richard Dresner
33:06
help to make sense of our crisis through critical thinking
Alex Kuilman
33:17
Soo many clients asking about what they can do to bring more agility in the context of the perpetual complex word they are facing
gila Ancel Seritcioglu
33:23
get a new perspective, learn, feel more, connect with the bigger self in these times of complexity and change
suzan Stub
33:26
pure curiosity to your thoughts on complexity handeling in crisis
Sandra Ellison
33:28
It seems to me that our time of COVID is a perfect time to be in a living laboratory of leading in complexity. Living in complexity. Maybe learning to thrive in it.
Zuzana Seneclauze
33:28
Learning to make trade-off between wanting get diversity of thinking (which takes time) and need to make decisions short term.
Simon and Andi Winter
33:31
this time and challenge is a truly cross-system and complex one and I am looking forward to how to embrace the challenges across systems in ways that can make a positive impact both in the context of the crisis response but also as a way of working for the future
Siobhan McCann
33:34
I was compelled to hear the voice of the mentor and friend who first empowered me to begin to question how we live and move and work in the world.
Wendy Moomaw
33:44
Complexity has felt playful in the past and while it’s present, I’m noticing there is more left to discover that may better ground me during this time.
Betsy Miller
33:47
Doing a lot of work with the Polarities framework over the past few years and also with Adaptive Leadership. Looking forward to see how this complements and enriches these perspectives.
anita vandevivere
33:49
curiosity
Elizabeth Izzo
34:10
My own work around myself as a complex being- moving from awareness to acceptance and then seeing how ALL are versions of complex systems. Working on how to apply -more effectively, within community
Samir Sekkat
34:19
To expand my perspective of the current state of the world and infer what my responsibility is in it
Yvonne Sum
34:22
love being with Mobius community even though its 11pm in shanghai now ❤️🌹
Chieko Sato
34:40
Learning and having more consciousness or even framework and structure around things that I may be doing more through intuition
Amiel Handelsman
35:01
I’ve met you, Zafer, and read your work, yet not had a chance to be in a session like this with you. That plus the universe is telling me it’s time to spend even more time with this community
Elizabeth Izzo
35:01
Have a passion for all things, integration
alexia larmaraud
35:11
Beautiful analogy :)
Tim Perkins
35:14
To just stop and listen at a time when we may not always be stopping and listening
Carolyn Coughlin
38:28
To see your first community concert! And to be in community with others who think this work is important.
Amiel Handelsman
39:04
Jennifer, thanks for stepping in there to close the loop on Zafer’s question to the group. Timely action!
anita vandevivere
40:56
I’m familiar with the model - so great to hear your perspective
Vlad Stefan Lichtenthal
43:09
If you are familiar with this version, you should have a look at the current 'liminal' version.
Asha Singh
43:27
Yes Vlad Stefan
Wendy Moomaw
45:29
Recently, data came out from Germany and the Netherlands about safe social distancing while running. While the research was collected, it was not reviewed and the notes in the paper were that they felt releasing the information was more important and then they would go back to peer review it and get it formally published. What domains are present in this example?
Henri Fortuin
50:40
Probe-Sense-Respond? Complex
Elise Willer
51:33
I’m a little confused, whats the difference between states of “disorder” and “chaotic”
johanne lavoie
51:49
do challenge exists in a domain of framework or do we use the map to make sense of any challenge
Mike G. Katz
51:50
I would like to explore “irrational” responses to what is knowable. In the US, this model depends on how we socially construct it
johanne lavoie
52:20
for example, would a bushfire or covid not include elements of all?
Vlad Stefan Lichtenthal
53:16
Nothing includes all elements. They are different ontologies!
Asha Singh
53:49
a different way to consider "disorder" is that we sense and explore what is happening before deciding how to respond, not that it is a place of confusion...move into a liminal place
Mike G. Katz
54:17
“misunderstanding” according to whom?
Gerhard Helm
54:41
Is this a model which reflects our current knowledge/ competence/ state fo science - or are some challenges in principle are in a specific domain?
Elise Willer
55:08
helpful, thank you
Carolyn Coughlin
55:19
I tend to think of “unconscious disorder” and “conscious disorder” The former is the state from which we just react according to the ways we are conditioned to react, the latter is intentional.
alexia larmaraud
55:33
Thank you fo rthe clarifitcation
Amiel Handelsman
56:06
Discerning which of these systems you are encountering is itself a mental demand on our own capacity to handle complexity, is it not? Unless we rely on an expert to tell us where we are
Jo Ilfeld
56:12
thanks Caroline!
Mike G. Katz
56:41
+1 with Amiel.
Asha Singh
58:51
good description @Carolyn
jennifer garvey berger
01:01:21
Amiel, I think of it as a demand and also a support for our growing our capacity to handle complexity
Amiel Handelsman
01:01:52
Jennifer, good point: both/and.
jennifer garvey berger
01:02:09
How do these ideas shed light on your experience and your response to Covid 19?Quick sharing of storiesCome back with: 1 insight and 1 question
Jo Ilfeld
01:15:47
our group discussed how we all try to find the rhythms and structure to put into our lives
Adam Bauer
01:15:50
I wish I did not have to leave early, but go I must. Bless you all!
jennifer garvey berger
01:16:02
Would love to see your questions and insights here!
Flavio Kosminsky
01:16:06
I would disagree
Flavio Kosminsky
01:16:13
To Mike
Grady McGonagill
01:16:13
is COVID best characterized as complex or chaotic? (we assume it can have elements of both)
Ginna Martin
01:16:14
Amazing article on grief that I want to share with the community: That Discomfort You’re Feeling Is Griefhttps://hbr.org/2020/03/that-discomfort-youre-feeling-is-grief
Henri Fortuin
01:16:16
Breakout 6: is the problem out there or in our head. Is it a matter of framing?
Anabel Fall
01:16:17
we discussed chaos as facts and insights constantly change
Mark Roberts
01:16:25
Is the difference between chaos and complexity in the world or in our framing? Historians operate from a complex place - seeking, with hindsight, to understand cause and affect. If you are a peasant caught in a revolution, it feels like chaos.
Simon and Andi Winter
01:16:26
Insight: lots of the actions happenig around the medical response, search for vaccines, health responses are in the complicated box
Hakan Silfverlin
01:16:27
Insight: Importance of working with frameworks like these. Question: how do we train ourselves best in our day to day lives
James McLean
01:16:39
we made some connections between the domains and some emotional intelligence domains that also offer benefits and drawbacks if the leader can use 'a toggle' to navigate around them
Carolyn Groobey
01:16:50
Insight: Many leaders confuse complex and chaos and the actions you take in each state are different
Vlad Stefan Lichtenthal
01:17:06
We have to mention the unforeseeable unintended consequences and manage constraints, catalysts and energy.
Wendy Moomaw
01:17:34
We seem to move from our “home base” on the cynevin framework. And from there, try to make more or less sense. A question I have, is whether there can be a dissonance between the cognitive processing of the human and what’s emerging in the body and be operating in two different systems simultaneously. If yes, I wonder if that needs to be integrated inside the self to adapt.
Betsy Miller
01:17:35
Observation: In times of unprecedented uncertainty about health, safety, and economics, it’s even more challenging than usual for organizational leaders to openly lead with grounded curiosity. This requires vulnerability and courage — and it relinquishes the ability to grant teams certainty. In professions that value being an “expert” at the expense of the learner’s mindset, this is a formidable task.
Simon and Andi Winter
01:17:42
Question: what are examples from the pandemic in the complex versus chaotic boxes and what makes them different?
Fahad Punjwani
01:17:53
I’m curious about the obvious vs. complex as the ‘true psychologically safe zone’. I heard in our breakout that ‘obvious’ was the safe zone that we crave. Is that really true? Zafer said that nature and people naturally gather around the complex and I wonder if the resistance and instability comes from our leadership/training/containers pushing us from choatic to obvious rather than enabling us to handle the complex.
Henri Fortuin
01:18:00
Asymptomatic spreading - can this be modelled? Chaos?
Betsy Miller
01:18:43
Question: How does the Complexity Thinking model overlay with the various models of adult ego development / stages? There is a need both to lead with complex thinking and also to meet people where they are.
Wendee Wolfson
01:18:52
Personal insight: Many think the responses around medical supply access and distribution are in complicated domain when there are many factors that are deeply underestimated in their complexity.
Mercy Martinez
01:19:06
This has given me the opportunity to see we are experiencing the full framework depending of our awareness and how much we are aware of our unconscious patterns.
Hannes Shariputra Chopra
01:19:19
Insight: COVID brings us into the chaotic mode. In Chaotic being able to survive and having the basics covered could actually be considered success.
Sandra W
01:19:26
what are the humanities or human capacities do we need to develop in different situations? it is always gene in the environment. :)
Marie Pace
01:19:48
Insight: Lots of examples of how the sense-making about this situation has been misaligned with the context and how this has generated chaos.
Stephen Finch
01:19:50
How do we help our colleagues build the capacity to respond to complexity?
Hannes Shariputra Chopra
01:19:54
Question: Isn’t it human nature that even in chaotic we make it somehow move to obvious (to have some regularity, simplicity, processes)?!
suzan Stub
01:20:08
i would suggest that it is COVID that is the Chaos but the repsosibile parties that create the crisis a/ chos and that creates the disorder we expericne
Amiel Handelsman
01:20:14
Insight: In “Coronavirus: The Hammer and the Dance,” Tomas Pueyo suggests that we’ve first locked down and what’s next is a dance where we put certain people back to work, test, see what happens. This proposal is a fine example of Probe, Sense, Respond.
Simon and Andi Winter
01:20:25
How do we ensure that as things start to open up we stay awake and don't allow homeostasis call us back to what we have always done \/
suzan Stub
01:20:25
Not COVID that is chaos
Sandra Ellison
01:20:51
I think its a mistake to lump all things about medical aspects of the virus into complicated space exclusively. There are things about the virus that are complex, and we make mistakes to respond to it with complicated solutions.
alexia larmaraud
01:21:43
I need to drop - thank you so much for hosting us Amy, and thank you Zafer & Jennifer for leading us on this path. I look forward to watching the 2nd part in the recording
gila Ancel Seritcioglu
01:22:46
Is it that Covid is chaotic or the way our governments have handled it has turned it to chaos.?
Wendy Moomaw
01:23:09
+1 Sandra - the signals of what is working in defining medical solutions and learning simultaneously feels beyond complicated.
suzan Stub
01:23:24
@ gila i tend to agree with you… COVID is just an organism trying o survive … from one perspective
Amiel Handelsman
01:23:25
One add: we in the U.S. have yet to consider from a mature perspective the unintended consequences of massive unemployment, which could even be measured in medical and health terms—depression, suicide, domestic violent, death, etc. Our dear president in the U.S. has referenced some of these but have we discussed at a mature level? hmmm…
Ronna Warsh
01:23:36
There is much stress created in life and death situations and complexity Leaders need to get support for their own adrenaline and anxiety in order to stay grounded and make decisions that are in the best interest of others
Eva Damsgaard
01:23:43
so true
Elizabeth Izzo
01:24:27
Can we get link of quote please?
Vlad Stefan Lichtenthal
01:24:38
Have you seen any political leader grow beyond his or her former self?
Nils Belich
01:24:55
Thank you very much for this gathering - what a delight to be connected with so many highly intelligent and kind human beings. May you all be happy!
Amiel Handelsman
01:27:12
Vlad, I don’t know but by some accounts Angela Merkel has found a moment that calls forth her strengths—scientific mindset, calm, caution with a new twist of compassion
Terry Finerty
01:28:10
Many people claim the NZ Prime Minister has grown, if not beyond herself, at least to the very high bar she has already set
Eva Damsgaard
01:28:22
The prime minister in Denmark, Mette Frederiksen, has grown in such a beautiful way...
Siobhán McCann
01:28:25
@Vlad Leo Varadkar (PM of Ireland) is manifesting great leadership growth of late
Siobhán McCann
01:29:31
IMHO
Eva Damsgaard
01:30:21
Yes, Vlad!! The DF party almost disappeared due to the ways she has developed...
Hannes Shariputra Chopra
01:31:51
My kids
Leonie von Wittgenstein
01:31:56
children
Ginna Martin
01:31:57
My children
Anabel Fall
01:31:59
my kids
Lisa Orlick
01:32:00
children
Vlad Stefan Lichtenthal
01:32:02
Dave Snowden
Siobhán McCann
01:32:03
I learned from the best: first one was Zafer Achi!
Carolyn Groobey
01:32:04
My coach
Amy Fox
01:32:06
My teachers.
Dominic Longo
01:32:08
Yes ! Children!
Betsy Miller
01:32:08
People who are themselves grounded and authentically curious.
johanne lavoie
01:32:11
zafer
anita vandevivere
01:32:13
someone who wants to challenge my thinking
Nathalie Hourihan
01:32:15
poets
Marie Pace
01:32:15
Often it’s artists.
Lissa Pohl
01:32:15
Stephen Buhner and the horses I work with.
suzan Stub
01:32:16
several people, my mentor, my colleagues my son
Birgit Vollmer
01:32:16
my nephews
Pradeep Dutt
01:32:20
outsiders
Siobhán McCann
01:32:21
Now my daughter, my teachers
Samir Sekkat
01:32:21
Life itself (seldom humans)
Lisa Orlick
01:32:21
artist
Sarah Preisser
01:32:22
agree, kids whose minds aren't limited by all the things we gather as we 'grow up'
Ronna Warsh
01:32:24
my therapist
joanna barsh
01:32:24
someone I do not know
Inessa Lurye
01:32:35
Friends from different fields / areas of work vs me
Nathalie Hourihan
01:32:38
strangers
Siobhán McCann
01:32:44
Outliers, artists
Thomas Allgauer
01:32:45
my Zen master
Mercy Martinez
01:32:52
my inquisitive friend that challenges me to see more than what my old habits guides me
Chelsea Simpson
01:32:59
implicitly, communities I don’t have frequent interaction with
Mark Roberts
01:33:06
awkward people
Eva Röttgers
01:33:12
my clients
Lori Simpson
01:33:30
Srini Pillay and sometimes myself!
Eva Damsgaard
01:34:23
Peter Lang, Karl Tomm, my former boss and good collegagues
joanna barsh
01:34:33
lately I have developed an obsession with tracking the number of deaths in Tucson. So now I question what's up with that?
Nathalie Hourihan
01:34:51
Does this situation remind me in any way of another time
Shea Adelson
01:34:53
What don’t we/I know?
anita vandevivere
01:34:58
where do you recognize this feeling from?
Amy Fox
01:34:59
What might I be missing?
Pradeep Dutt
01:35:01
How might you be wrong?
Sandra Ellison
01:35:02
What else might be happening here, that I don't see or haven't considered?
Dominic Longo
01:35:03
What’s available here?
Carolyn Coughlin
01:35:06
What am I not seeing?
Asha Singh
01:35:06
What are you feeling in your body?
Caryn Kaftal
01:35:07
How should I think about x?
Shea Adelson
01:35:08
What else?
Julie Harnik
01:35:08
What can I control?
Charlotte Milliner
01:35:09
How does X serve or benefit us?
Wendy Moomaw
01:35:10
What are others seeing/noticing?
Betsy Miller
01:35:10
Whose perspective are we forgetting to include?
Lisa Orlick
01:35:11
What else?
Shea Adelson
01:35:11
What else is possible?
johanne lavoie
01:35:12
what can I not understand with my mind here
Gerhard Helm
01:35:12
What does this mean?
Marie Baudron
01:35:13
how do you know for it to be true?
JOdi Rabinowitz
01:35:14
What elements of this situation have I encountered in the past?
Lucy Fine
01:35:14
What is surprising you?
Mike G. Katz
01:35:16
What part of me is rejecting this experience?
Chelsea Simpson
01:35:17
some variation of- why does that matter to you?
Carolyn Groobey
01:35:19
What are the possibilities?
Vlad Stefan Lichtenthal
01:35:21
What is the adjacent possible?
michelle brody
01:35:22
What if my assumptions are wrong
Amy Fox
01:35:23
What does silence say.
gila Ancel Seritcioglu
01:35:23
Whats happening to me?
Marie Pace
01:35:23
What can’t I see going on here?
Thomas Allgauer
01:35:24
could the opposite be true?
joanna barsh
01:35:25
What is a fact?
Jennifer Lynch
01:35:25
What if this wasn’t happening to you, but for you
Elizabeth Izzo
01:35:25
Do I have to be attached to the outcome?
suzan Stub
01:35:26
what are you seeing that i am not
Amiel Handelsman
01:35:27
“What if I’m wrong?”, which I learned from Carolyn Coughlin, is pretty darned useful
Hannes Shariputra Chopra
01:35:27
How can this event become the best thing that happened to me?
Ginna Martin
01:35:27
How can I reinvent myself during this time based on the new trends emerging? (relevance)
Wendy Moomaw
01:35:28
Who else might offer another perspective?
Robin Athey
01:35:28
I first attune … then … what’s wanting to happen right now?
Marie Pace
01:35:30
What’s surprising?
Shea Adelson
01:35:30
What is the real problem we are trying to solve?
johanne lavoie
01:35:31
what has energy
Mercy Martinez
01:35:31
What other possibilities are here that can bring new creations? What other story can I come up with?
Samir Sekkat
01:35:32
How much are my fears and wishes reflected in my perspectives?
Deepa Awal
01:35:33
How to be comfortable with unknown
Shea Adelson
01:35:33
Is it solvable?
Paul Silverman
01:35:34
what is my blind spot? How am I limiting my thinking?
Terry Finerty
01:35:35
Can you think of 10 positive things about this situation
Simon and Andi Winter
01:35:36
WHats a different set of people to talk to than the usual?
Jane Corbett
01:35:37
how does this look to people in a very different viewpoint
Siobhán McCann
01:35:39
How might we… ?
Eva Röttgers
01:35:40
your grandmother, neighbor, colleague, etc. what think of this situation
Pradeep Dutt
01:35:41
What would happen if you did the opposite?
Dylan Skybrook
01:35:50
If we do X, what else might happen than what we intended?
Inessa Lurye
01:35:51
What would have to be known to make this decision?
anita vandevivere
01:35:52
is this your emotion or some else’s emotion?
Eva Damsgaard
01:35:53
What important values should guide you in this situation?
Steve Stulck
01:36:00
What are you seeing? Experiencing?
Stephen Finch
01:36:01
when do you feel most excited?
Anne Gottlieb
01:36:06
Are we able to wait in the uncertainty?
Siobhán McCann
01:36:10
What seeks expression in me now?
Anne Gottlieb
01:36:14
Do you want to Look?
joanna barsh
01:36:40
MINDTRAPS!
joanna barsh
01:36:50
it's NOT simple stupid ;oi)
Eva Damsgaard
01:37:14
What would you like to be remembered for, after you dealt with this ambiguity?
joanna barsh
01:37:25
maybe we are all wrong
Amiel Handelsman
01:39:24
Anyone here familiar with the horizontal system, the Enneagram? It suggests there are nine patterned defaults for dealing with complexity and nine paths of growth. Different strokes for different folks.
Lissa Pohl
01:39:35
My question is “ Is there a ‘right’ perspective?”
joanna barsh
01:40:04
I find myself refusing to look at the extreme downsides
Jane Corbett
01:40:21
seeing more holistically
Ginna Martin
01:40:21
I would move out of denial and consider all scenarios … including "worst case" … and plan accordingly
johanne lavoie
01:40:22
I could relate more to the scared part under that perspective
Mark Roberts
01:40:30
What I might lose looms too large
Ronna Warsh
01:40:30
I find I have less patience for so perspectives I just want to get it done
Eva Röttgers
01:41:25
when everyone brings in their perspective not too emotional it is fine to life with opposing truth. If they bring in a high charge to convince me I go to the other pol
Asha Singh
01:41:27
moving country - diving into the unknown :-) when we could help to change where we are
Lisa Orlick
01:41:34
when taking another point of view, the rate of change slows down to reaction. The space expands in the 'bardo'
Sandra Ellison
01:41:53
I just learned that my dear friend of over 30 years, a smart and competent woman that I adore, is a Trump supporter and believed COVID was a hoax early on.
Gerhard Helm
01:41:57
What about perspectives we despise of?
Eva Damsgaard
01:42:11
I wish to contribute to make the world better... no matter what...
Dominic Longo
01:42:20
I avoid thinking about those in real poverty, whether here in NYC or favelas in Brasil or slums in Indian cities, etc.
Eva Röttgers
01:43:35
I protect myself from views I see as conspiracy theory
Ronna Warsh
01:43:42
that is very sweet
Shea Adelson
01:43:47
I cannot find compassion or understanding for our leadership’s inability to get us testing
Amy Fox
01:43:55
Want to be sure everyone knows that the Mobius Cares portion of our website has last week’s webinar from Mobius Senior Expert Terry Real, relationship therapist, on marital conflict during Covid.
Gerhard Helm
01:44:56
Holding a perspective is not taking on a perspective = opposable mind
Mike G. Katz
01:45:19
Those perspectives that exist in the system that are unnamed. Sounds like “timespirits” (Arnie Mindell)
Asha Singh
01:45:58
thank you all :-)
johanne lavoie
01:46:19
art
Siobhán McCann
01:46:20
Peacock feathers
Ginna Martin
01:46:22
calm and storms
Jennifer Lynch
01:46:24
A tropical storm above new zealand
anita vandevivere
01:46:27
weather forecast
Betsy Miller
01:46:27
artist rendering of a hurricane
Eva Damsgaard
01:46:28
weather map
Henri Fortuin
01:46:29
parrot
Sally Arundell
01:46:29
australia
Martine Cannon
01:46:30
Movement and stability
Ken Gibson
01:46:32
I don't want to be in a boat between NY and Tonga!
Richard Dresner
01:46:33
NZ and Oz
Mark Roberts
01:46:35
Ocean currents off Australia?
Lucy Fine
01:46:38
weather
Pradeep Dutt
01:46:39
peacock
Matt Wexler
01:46:41
a person with their mouth open on the left
Mark Roberts
01:46:43
Peacock feathers
Ira Morris
01:46:43
tropical storm north of NZ
Siobhán McCann
01:46:44
music
Hannes Shariputra Chopra
01:47:03
I see a bull (on the left)
Sandra Ellison
01:47:05
the interactive flow of weather
Elizabeth Izzo
01:47:06
A story
Wendy Moomaw
01:47:07
Eyes of a bird?
Mark Roberts
01:47:26
There's no weather over land
Shea Adelson
01:47:31
How the land pauses the green movement
Ginna Martin
01:47:32
Concentrated at nexus of storms
anita vandevivere
01:47:34
the turnings around the eyes
Pradeep Dutt
01:47:34
centre
Siobhán McCann
01:47:36
There is an eye
Martine Cannon
01:47:42
Center points, ripples
Wendy Moomaw
01:47:43
Currents - there are competing systems
Sandra Ellison
01:47:46
one feeds into another
Siobhán McCann
01:47:52
there are areas untouched
Pradeep Dutt
01:47:56
you can only see this from above
Elizabeth Izzo
01:47:57
Can be both
Mikael Meir
01:47:58
Looks like Vincent Van Gogh
Siobhán McCann
01:48:03
It evokes movement
Pradeep Dutt
01:48:03
inside this i would not know
Martine Cannon
01:48:09
Centre is still
Sally Arundell
01:48:13
Push and pull
Simon and Andi Winter
01:48:16
the eyes ar
Jennifer Lynch
01:48:19
The eye has a spiral of centripetal force
Deepa Awal
01:48:20
Yes of the hurricane is in the negative space
Simon and Andi Winter
01:48:20
are attractors
Wendy Moomaw
01:48:23
There are current between the eyes and they have to choose which they will align with.
Marie Pace
01:48:23
There are clear patterns to how the swirls form.
Sarah Preisser
01:48:24
the eye is still
Ginna Martin
01:48:24
Energy is drawn to the eyes
suzan Stub
01:48:26
the eyes are opposable
Wendy Moomaw
01:48:40
There is a pull into the eye
Thomas Allgauer
01:48:40
It turns clock-wise
Eva Damsgaard
01:48:42
The eyes are like attractors
gila Ancel Seritcioglu
01:48:42
stillness & movement the paradox
Lissa Pohl
01:49:13
If ‘what I see is all there is’ Then how do I see something different? What is needed to take a different perspective? What if it is not a human perspective? But instead a plant, insect or animal perspective?
Lissa Pohl
01:49:35
Everything is connected - Biomimicry
Henri Fortuin
01:51:27
Our brains are fit for foraging in the African savannah. Beyond that, too much.
jennifer garvey berger
01:52:12
What are some of the forces that amplify or dampen aspects of your challenge?
johanne lavoie
01:52:13
kids without summer jub
Nathalie Hourihan
01:52:19
travel ban, loss of work
Charlotte Milliner
01:52:19
habits of behavior
Julie (she/her/hers)
01:52:19
fear, volatility, capitalism
Shea Adelson
01:52:24
Fear and anxiety and need to control
Ronna Warsh
01:52:25
fear
joanna barsh
01:52:25
daughter in nyc
anita vandevivere
01:52:32
government intervening with personal preferences
Simon and Andi Winter
01:52:32
no control over financial flows
Lisa Orlick
01:52:33
epigenetics
Pradeep Dutt
01:52:36
my discomfort to set to the unknown to see the larger picture
Siobhán McCann
01:52:37
financial crisis
Nancy Beer
01:52:37
Where is home?
Dominic Longo
01:52:38
Paying attention to my weaknesses as they get amplified!
Anabel Fall
01:52:41
the fact one can not plan - the unknown
Chelsea Simpson
01:52:41
lizard brain fears around scarcity 🧠 🦎
Wendy Moomaw
01:52:44
uncertainty in system that we are moving into (college decision making process)
Simon and Andi Winter
01:52:47
history and old baggage
Betsy Miller
01:52:52
A resistance to resilience (here I’m talking about my 6 year old, who is fighting for normalcy by resisting the challenge to build capacity and resilience with unsatisfying distance learning)
Anne Gottlieb
01:52:52
defensiveness
Paul Silverman
01:52:54
economic pressures/desperation at large
Christina Showalter
01:52:55
The economy, political situations that make business recovery difficult.
Jane Corbett
01:52:56
spiritual emergence
joanna barsh
01:52:57
work does not seem to matter
Vlad Stefan Lichtenthal
01:52:58
the notion of opportunity and the possibility to contribute fuel(s) my system every day
Chieko Sato
01:52:59
I have to go to another meeting sadly. Thank you Zafer, Jennifer, Amy and all. Stay safe and well.
Laurence Monnery
01:53:00
polarisation
Shea Adelson
01:53:03
Lack of leadership
Ronna Warsh
01:53:04
triggers from the past
Matt Wexler
01:53:05
sadness, uncertainty, loss
Carolyn Coughlin
01:53:16
reading the news amplifies my anxiety. Getting outside amplifies my sense of well being
Simon and Andi Winter
01:53:20
no idea when I can see my daughter again
Ronna Warsh
01:53:23
people sick
Anne Gottlieb
01:53:24
inability to connect the same way
Lisa Orlick
01:53:31
inherited grief response
Anne Gottlieb
01:53:33
continuum of trust
Dominic Longo
01:53:37
Tuning into blooming flowers and gorgeous clouds helps me recharge and find resources of new perspectives on what’s happening in society
joanna barsh
01:53:51
happy earth day
Eva Damsgaard
01:54:00
Focusing on what I CAN do - what I can influence dampens
Terry Finerty
01:54:02
separation of cause and effect in distance and time amplifies impact - noticeable when in a lockdown - for instance as you respond to need for new approaches, foundations / attractors established or not amplifies the problem or accelerates the impact of reactions
Elizabeth Izzo
01:54:26
I can have more patience for the process when I know the systems are global and also in relationship to nature, to let matters unfold with trust and learn what is within my ability to control and to choose to do and be
joanna barsh
01:54:34
these tools are really helpful - thank you!
johanne lavoie
01:54:40
Thank you Zafer and Jennifer!!! and Amy and everyone. A nice energy boost in my day
Amiel Handelsman
01:54:42
Physical touch from fewer people
Lori Simpson
01:54:43
Possibility that we will be more connected and caring of humanity, but fearing the economic fallout will create greater chasms
Sarah Preisser
01:56:06
consider polarity - it can be devastating AND beautiful...
Dominic Longo
01:56:10
Yes, Mike, can we allow ourselves to see beauty in the virus?
Mercy Martinez
01:56:13
Great reminder — to go up and the system because unexpected chaos can throw me into inner —stuck place
Martine Cannon
01:56:15
Can you ever step out of a system? When you do so you create a fixed view that doesn’t really exist. It is just like a photograph. Then I interpret the photo but I am never actually outside that system. Is that not an illusion?
Grady McGonagill
01:56:33
I think you can know it’s a hurricane AND find it beautiful
anita vandevivere
01:56:39
thanks for picking this up - there might be beautifulness in everything how awful they might like
Dominic Longo
01:56:50
What if kindness or mercy or empathy were as contagious as Covid-19?
Lori Simpson
01:57:29
I love that…”our inter-relatedness is more important than any one person”
Elizabeth Izzo
01:57:47
Our conditioning to what is beauty has been filtered through a narrower lens of what “is”
Shea Adelson
01:57:47
literally
Sandra Ellison
01:58:12
I've found it super useful to ponder "what else could be happening here, on a broader level that I cant see?" It draws out that even higher balcony view.
Henri Fortuin
01:58:19
Ten times more microbes than cells in our body. So we are contained within the biome and virome systems.
michelle brody
01:58:39
Awe is a very productive systems feeling - even though COVID brings so many problems to us, you can also see it with awe - that it has incredibly changed SO many things (and potentially changed so many things) in one fell swoop - because of our inconnectivity!
jennifer garvey berger
01:59:35
Double loop check in
jennifer garvey berger
01:59:38
or
jennifer garvey berger
01:59:42
Complexity check in
Zuzana Seneclauze
02:04:09
Does each person answer all of the 3 questions or just who wants to jump in?
jennifer garvey berger
02:04:17
Just who wants to jump in
Zuzana Seneclauze
02:04:44
Thanks for clarifying Jennifer
Flavio Kosminsky
02:04:51
Can I have the slide again?
Siobhán McCann
02:05:11
What is it that I am most curious about after this conversation?
jennifer garvey berger
02:05:12
First round: answer question: What is it I am most curious about after this set of ideas and conversations?
jennifer garvey berger
02:05:29
Second round: What are the patterns? What are the outliers? What are the things that are not said, the absences?
Laurence Monnery
02:05:32
Thank you Zafer and Jennifer. apologies as I need to step out now.
suzan Stub
02:06:11
ank you so much. delighted to meet you Zafer. good to see you Jennifer i need to go
joanna barsh
02:16:59
we didn't get to the double part of the loop!
JOdi Rabinowitz
02:17:45
HEADY SHIT … BUT COOL
joanna barsh
02:17:46
we are all anxious about the new world coming, which we do not understand
Charlotte Milliner
02:17:48
We did have adequate time to go through the process.
Hannes Shariputra Chopra
02:17:56
Great experience. Very explorative.
Jens Riese
02:17:56
Really important to read from the notes and not narrate- takes too long toherwise
Shea Adelson
02:17:59
Discovered how important it is to do the writing and read what you wrote
Anabel Fall
02:18:09
we did full loop and it was really great - patterns and especially the unsaid was very powerful
Shea Adelson
02:18:13
So as to not “build on” each other
Eva Röttgers
02:18:20
we found what was absent for us was fear, we shared curiosity and wanting to learn
Chelsea Simpson
02:18:24
fahad, such a pleasing color scheme you have goin on ☀️
anita vandevivere
02:18:27
uncertainty - leadership - continuous learning
Anabel Fall
02:18:49
struggled to just listen in round 1
Dominic Longo
02:19:06
It was fun to look for outliers! And put us in more mysterious space to look for the unsaid
Eva Damsgaard
02:19:12
Leadership and uncertainty
susan dunn
02:19:25
IN round 1 you have a choice of listening with intent (trying to make sense) or listening withotu intent (being open)
joanna barsh
02:19:30
fear
Amiel Handelsman
02:19:30
We did less than one round. Luckily this experiment was safe to fail!
Alain Gauthier
02:19:30
What is missing: the role of intuition in seeing/feeling systems?
Mike Fiszer
02:19:33
there is a need for a more omnidisciplinary education system that allows the organic humans to be part of the systems rather than observers of them, we are viruses to larger organic systems of the planet
JOdi Rabinowitz
02:19:46
Thanks everyone!!! Stay safe. Sat well.
Anabel Fall
02:19:50
we did not say the uncertain, vulnerability and fear but had as patterns wanting to jump to action/being in control
anita vandevivere
02:19:57
thank you for this experience!
Samir Sekkat
02:20:15
Thanks everyone
Sandra Ellison
02:20:16
Thanks Zafer & Jennifer! This was fun.
Nancy Beer
02:20:34
Thank you everyone. This was the highlight of my day.
Eva Damsgaard
02:20:45
Thank you!!! Greetings from Denmark
Richard Dresner
02:20:52
thanks all. was facinating
Lissa Pohl
02:20:53
Thanks everyone. See /feel something new today!
Steve Stulck
02:20:54
Thank you Zafer and Jennifer for guiding the conversation and to the community for engaging in the dialogue.
Simon and Andi Winter
02:20:59
Thanks very much - terrific and inspiring
Carolyn Coughlin
02:21:00
Lovely to meet and re-meet all of you!
joanna barsh
02:21:02
thanks to all. loved seeing and hearing you
Louis GUINAUDEAU
02:21:05
Thank you Zafer & Jennifer, and the breakout room buddies :)
Hannes Shariputra Chopra
02:21:07
Thanks a lot. Super interesting and engaging!
Julie (she/her/hers)
02:21:16
brilliant community, seamlessly facilitated, eminently and imminently helpful
Robin Athey
02:21:28
🙏🏼 thank you Zafer, Jennifer, Amy, community!
Wendy Moomaw
02:21:29
Thank you all - intriguing and a wonderful opportunity to apply these tools.
Shea Adelson
02:21:36
A wonderful learning experience. Thank you
joanna barsh
02:21:37
love the co-hosting and break out concepts - really well done
Lisa Orlick
02:21:37
Thank you Zafer and Jennifer and Amy.
Lori Simpson
02:21:41
Zafer, Jennifer and Amy…thank you so very much. The connection with this community is such a gift to all of us. Nothing else like it!!
Marie Pace
02:21:42
Thanks, Zafer & Jennifer. Wonderful offering!
gila Ancel Seritcioglu
02:21:44
Thank you Zafer for this mind opening inspiring presentation. Thank you Amy and Mobius for this beautiful generous event.
Ken Gibson
02:21:45
Thanks Zafer & Jennifer, and of course Amy and the gang at Mobius. Fantastic. Tools for our times
Mercy Martinez
02:21:50
Thank you all so much each help me today just be such wonderful sharing.
Jane Corbett
02:22:03
thank you for such a rich conversation
Anabel Fall
02:22:36
thank you everyone
Siobhán McCann
02:22:37
Thank you dear friends. 🙏🏻
Anabel Fall
02:22:44
very nice to take a step back
Paul Silverman
02:22:48
Wonderful. Thank you all.
Amiel Handelsman
02:23:18
Ya’ll come back now, you hear! (Southern experience evoked)
Dominic Longo
02:24:45
Thank you - I bow to all of you in gratitude
Siobhán McCann
02:24:45
🙏🏻
Alain Gauthier
02:24:46
Many thanks to all
Deepa Awal
02:24:54
many thanks
Mercy Martinez
02:24:57
Thank you!!!
Lori Simpson
02:25:01
Amy….please share the quote too…typing through my tears.
Matt Wexler
02:25:02
thank you so very much
James McLean
02:25:03
Super!
Christina Showalter
02:25:04
Thank you so much to all your contribution.